One of the things I've been wanting to do is to create a list of payouts for different levels in Storm8 games. It's also a popular topic on the Forum. After months of putting it off, I finally got started on the project.

The idea was to collect payout samples from myself and other players for each level in every Storm8 game to find the lowest and the highest payout for specific levels. I knew that collecting samples from every single level in every game would take months or even years, so I wrote a script that assumed that if level 60 had a max payout of 45,002,320 in WW, then level 61 would have at least that much in max payout.

This method would allow a fairly accurate payout list even with data from 30-40 levels spread out between level 7-300!

DATA COLLECTION BEGINS Payout sample collection started quietly with only a few people involved (Icephr3ak, Ronin, Shartnpants, Speedy Speed, etc.), then I used the March 8 Ladies events in iMobsters to crash those events and collect samples from even more levels. :) I didn't announce it or asked for help to make sure that all data recorded was accurate.

After a few days and consistent sample collection we had a few a consecutive levels and it suggested that payout increases with every level. Basically there is a gradual increase with each level, and there is a bigger bump on certain levels.

Icephr3ak noticed the gradual increase first, I thought payout would be the same for smaller brackets of levels.

Another thing I noticed was that when I attacked a myself for dozens of times, I would see the same payouts over and over again. This indicated that payouts remained within the minimum and maximum range but were not entirely random.

I typically saw 30-40 different payout on a specific level. Hmmm.....

MAKING SENSE OF IT ALL OK, so that was strange and a little promising! I started two new characters in World War and iMobsters, allied up with a higher level account of mine and scored a few dozen hits to get the accounts started with a bunch of money.

My criteria was that both accounts must have a high amount of cash on hand, must remain above 1:1 win/loss ratio and I simply started attacking each other.

Typical payouts I saw on level 7 were:

10,680 12,600 13,080 etc.

After attacking back and forth for as long as could without leveling up I came up with: 9,600 9,720 9,840 ... 14,160 14,280 14,400

OK, so payouts occurred with a $120 increments, between 9,600 and 14,400. My next step was to calculate the multiplier. I added an extra column and divided the payouts with the increment for that level. Like so:

PAYOUT FORMULA Level 7: 120 x (random number between 80-120) Level 8: 140 x (random number between 80-120) Level 9: 160 x (random number between 80-120) Level 10: 180 x (random number between 80-120) Level 11: 200 x (random number between 80-120) etc...

This is only a basic formula that seems to work until level 11. Possibly there is a small adjustment at level 12. The multiplier goes 120, 140... Storm8 could increase it to 500 or some other number to do a bump and then increase it again by 20 for the next few levels.

Payouts are identical for iMobsters and World War for the levels I tested so far between level 7 and 10. On higher levels World War payouts will make a bigger bump. The highest payout ever recorded for iMobsters was 18,582,735, while in World War it's above 100 million.

I haven't started on other games yet, but I assume it'll use similar formula. Some games may have a bigger range of random numbers going from 75-125, for example. Also, in some games if you select thief or similar cast then you win more during battles. So that complicates things slightly...

WHAT AFFECTS PAYOUT EXACTLY? There are three things that will affect your payout:

1) your win/loss ratio 2) your level 3) your cash on hand

The effects of win/loss ratio: It's a ratio of the number of wins and losses you have (kills and deaths do not count). 100 wins and 100 losses gives you a win/loss ratio of 1:1 100 wins and 200 losses gives you a w/l ratio of 1:2 100 wins and 500 losses gives you a w/l ratio of 1:5

So far I have not noticed that having a w/l ratio of 1:1 will give you a higher payout!!! Payout will drop around 1:5 (when your losses reach 5x the number of wins you have). There are rumors that payout seems to decrease slightly before 1:5. I honestly don't know yet...

Having a good w/l ratio (1:5 or better!) is the most important thing ATMs must pay attention to in order keep high payouts!

The effects of your level: You will simply have higher payouts as you level up. To insure quality events, this website does not allow events posted from ATMs below level 60!

The effects of your cash on hand: Even if you have a good W/L and high level, your payout will be reduced if you don't have sufficient amount of money on hand.

You will never lose more than 25% of your cash on hand!

Even if your payout should be around 30-45 million per hit, but you only have 20 million cash on hand, then your max payout will be 5 million tops! Probably between 3.5 - 5 million.

25% is the MOST you can lose. The lower end I haven't exactly found yet.

This is the reason why ATMs payout go down at the end of the event if they run out of cash.

WHAT DOES ALL THIS MEAN? Well, this is just the beginning of the quest to find exact payouts for every game and every level. However knowing the basic principle does make things easier.

There's plenty more work to do. It might help to determine exact payouts once W/L dips below 1:5, but my priority is to map out normal payouts first.

This is great. Can I help? Yes, if you are on a level that I haven't mapped out yet and you're willing to unarm and lose some money for this cause, please contact me on Palringo.

You must have a W/L of 1:1 or better (more wins than losses...). You must unarm completely. You must have a good amount of money on hand (will discuss on Pal). You must be willing to lose some of it... You must leave a link on AtmWall. AtmWall will be using that link to attack you 30-50 times...

Don't expect private event or VIP upgrade in return. All I can offer is an AtmWall link.

WHERE CAN I FIND THE STORM8 ATM PAYOUTS? Results are posted as part of the ATM University. A new section that is dedicated to help future ATMs on how to become ATMs, as well as to current ATMs to find awesome tools for their ATM business...

Please note that ATM University is still in development! More tutorials are being written by Ronin (thank you!!!!!), and I am working on ATM related calculators such as:

- calculate your win/loss ratio - calculate the number of losses you may get during an event - calculate how long it takes to save up for an event - calculate how much money you need to heal during an event

Thanks for reading. Looking forward to reading your thoughts!

This is an excellent piece of reverse engineering work! The result of this work will not only help ATMs to better manage their account to provide better service but also help people to choose appropriate ATM for their purpose and help ATM with good win/loss ratio.

I am curious to know how 25% cap of loss is found. :-) It is probably statistics. That means at the ending stage of ATM event, the payout will go down, which means ATMs need to keep pumping money during the event to maintain steady payout? This sound a bit of weird though. So in your test, do you observe that the ATM payout goes down gradually with the decrase of cash?

Anyways, this is terrific work and thank you very much for your research!

I guess there could be a threshold, because my experience shows during the event, that ATMs pay out are quite steady until at the very end of the event, the payout drops significant if ATM is out of money. So their model could be a steady payout until some threshold is broken, then the payout will drop. If that threshold can be found, ATMs should stop the event after that threshold is reached.

Ok, that let's assume we continue hitting 6,105,000 ---> you lose 1,526,250 (25%) 4,578,750 ---> you lose 1,144,680 (25%) ...

you can see, if the loss is never exceeding 25%, and with the ever decresing amount of money available in ATM event, then we should see a steady decrease of payout in the event. But I am not sure this is the experience I had, I saw the payout swing within a fixed range (some hits get higher, some other hits get lower) until at the very end of the event, the payout drops dramatically (I got 1 hit with $9 in the event, probably the last hit:-)). Does this mean ATM is keeping pumping in money in the event to maintain the payout? I really doubt it.

Maybe other people can post their experience of payout in ATM event. Or maybe we could increase the amount of money available to experiment.

I never said that it will be 25% fixed. I said it would never be more than 25%. Payout will still be between a range. Let's say 12.5% and 25% of your cash on hand money. And it will be a random amount somewhere in between.

After each hit your cash on hand decreases and therefore the payout as well.

No ATM will pump more cash into the event during the event. Events happen so fast that sometimes ATMs don't even realize that they ran out of cash...

Your payout will not decrease until your cash on hand reaches 4x your max payout since that's when you reach the 25% treshold. At that point it would be possible to generate a higher payout than the 25%...

So any ATM would have to have at least that much extra on hand. However it's not possible to stop the event at a specific money, so I personally always have an extra few billion sitting there...

Ok, now i got your theory and I totally agree. 4X where X is the payout amount is the threshold. This is so cool!

Unfortunately, as you mentioned, there is no way for ATM to control to stop the event as certain amount of money on hand is reached, we have to live with that. But the finding of this fact is superb.

I hope Storm8 would not mind that you cracked their formula! Haha..

Storm8 hates ATMs and has released several updates to try and make them fail. I don't think they'll really like this, but who cares! This is amazing! Now, we can look at an ATM, their stats, and the amount their event will be for, and calculate a range of payouts. I'm sure clients will be really happy to get this information :)

Later, when I found that the tables were mostly incompleted on many different games. Of course, even with much fewer results, there can be a certain pattern on the results, and assume the payouts on all games uses the similar formula of:

k x (a random number between 80 and 120) where k is the multiplier is based on your level, but is not necessary an integer

Here, I don't record the details. However, there is a difference between different amounts to estimate the multiplier. Just summarize the results based on a few payout data available:

World War

Level 55: multiplier is 98,100, possible range 7,848,000 - 11,772,000

Vampires Live

Level 20: multiplier is 2,314.5, possible range 185,160 - 277,740

Racing Live

Level 17: multiplier is 85, possible range 6,800 - 10,200

And based on the results at levels 11, 15 and 16, it appears that the initial gradual increase in iMobsters and World War still works here, but to a higher level until level 17. So for lower levels, the results are as follows:

Level 7: multiplier is 35, possible range 2,800 - 4,200

Level 8: multiplier is 40, possible range 3,200 - 4,800

Level 9: multiplier is 45, possible range 3,600 - 5,400

Level 10: multiplier is 50, possible range 4,000 - 6,000

Level 11: multiplier is 55, possible range 4,400 - 6,600

Level 12: multiplier is 60, possible range 4,800 - 7,200

Level 13: multiplier is 65, possible range 5,200 - 7,800

Level 14: multiplier is 70, possible range 5,600 - 8,400

Level 15: multiplier is 75, possible range 6,000 - 9,000

Level 16: multiplier is 80, possible range 6,400 - 9,600

Level 17: multiplier is 85, possible range 6,800 - 10,200

Of course, the non-integer multiplier can be difficult to guess based on the difference between each payouts.

Now try to divide the initial input by each of the results in the last step to get the possible multiplier and try to guess it. It would be about 27.765.

That means at Level 20, the payout range should be between 27.765 x 80 and 27.765 x 120, that is about 2,221 and 3,332 (the game rounds the payout amount to the nearest integer value).

That means, the possible multiplier can be between 28 and 28.33333. Divide each input by the lowest possible and the highest possible multiplier. Since 2251/28.33333=79.44706, and 2251/28=80.39286, the smallest random number generated would be 80. Do the same thing to all other inputs, the random number generated would be:

80; 84; 85; 107; 112; 115; 120

And finally find the actual multiplier:

2251 / 80 = 28.1375

2363 / 84 = 28.13095 2391 / 85 = 28.12941

3010 / 107 = 28.13084 3151 / 112 = 28.13393 3236 / 115 = 28.13913 3376 / 120 = 28.13333 That means, the payout formula in Zombies at Level 21 would be about:

28.135 x (a random number between 80 and 120)

That is from 2,251 to 3,376. Two of the payouts above represent the minimum and maximum range.

Lets continue about this story above. The minimum payout of 4,838,506 calculated agrees with the next level's minimum, which means the maximum payout of 7,017,552 at level 68 would be incorrect. So we'll try to fill the missing gap in the table later.

The next thing you would be surpised, is in Vampires Live and Zombies Live at both Level 22, the payout range remain the same level as whatever it were before.

They are all multiples of quarters, so we have 9,380 / 4 = 2,345, that's the same as last level. That means after the first big increase in multiplier, it may go up at some levels, and may stay the same until the maximum possible is reached.

The payouts I have ever found in Zombies were (only different amounts are listed below):

But, something wrong is happened, because 535-479=56 and the corresponding ratio rounding resulted in two consecutive integers. So we need to correct it:

To summarize the latest results, there were something like 15 or so results I have gotten in Racing Live while staying at Level 18, surprisingly, even though a new real estate is unlocked, the increments of each payout amount is only $90. That means, the payout formula in Racing Live at Level 18 would be:

90 x (a random number between 80 and 120), that means the range would be 7,200 - 10,800

However, in Ninjas Live, the data is very insufficent, so far I have gotten were:

Level 43 - 15,367

Level 45 - 15,965

Later, after the constant range of payouts in Vampires Live from level 21-24, I'll find the result at level 25 when more results are observed.

A similar results that can happen in Vampires Live can be observed in Zombies Live at the same level. After two sections, the highest payout I have ever found was 4,895. The detailed results are posted as follows:

1st section: 4,439; 3,941; 3,651; 4,024

The all possible differences were: 83; 290; 373; 415; 498; 788, results in a ratio of:

1; 3.493976; 4.493976; 5; 6; 9.493976, which is about:

2; 7; 9; 10; 12; 19, which resulted in a multiplier of between 41.42857143 and 41.5.

Dividing the initial inputs by the possible multiplier range result in, and take it further:

3,651 / 88 = 41.48864

3,941 / 95 = 41.48421

4,024 / 97 = 41.48454

4,439 / 107 = 41.48598

The actual multiplier should be about 41.485. Notice that it is a significant increase from level 24.

Again we'll find the results in Vampires Live. With two of the results before and another 5 different results and I have also seen a payout the same as one of the two before. The seven different amount I have ever gotten are:

The smallest increment I can find is now 3,458, again an significant increase from 2,345 from levels 21-24. After a more accurate approximation, we'll found that:

280,071 / 81 = 3,457.666667

325,020 / 94 = 3,457.659574

352,682 / 102 = 3,457.666667

363,055 / 105 = 3,457.666667

373,428 / 108 = 3,457.666667

401,089 / 116 = 3,457.663793

404,547 / 117 = 3,457.666667

After a slight adjustment, the payout formula in Vampires Live at Level 25 would be about:

Again we'll find the results in Vampires Live. With two of the results before and another 5 different results and I have also seen a payout the same as one of the two before. The seven different amount I have ever gotten are:

The smallest increment I can find is now 3,458, again an significant increase from 2,345 from levels 21-24. After a more accurate approximation, we'll found that:

280,071 / 81 = 3,457.666667

325,020 / 94 = 3,457.659574

352,682 / 102 = 3,457.666667

363,055 / 105 = 3,457.666667

373,428 / 108 = 3,457.666667

401,089 / 116 = 3,457.663793

404,547 / 117 = 3,457.666667

After a slight adjustment, the payout formula in Vampires Live at Level 25 would be about:

3,457.66 x (a random number between 80 and 120)

That means, the range would be 276,613 - 414,919.

Suddenly, I have found my newsfeed got attacks from other players on the hit list. The amount I lost from each fight were:

The smallest different I can find is 3,457, almost equal to the last time I have found for the past seven results. To calculate it further, the multiplier calculated last time of about 3,457.66 maybe incorrect. Instead it would be 3,457.5. Maybe next time if I get more I will try to make it more sense.

It seems that there are actually two different payout scales for attacks from Vampires and Zombies in Vampires Live. It looks like Vampires attacking Vampires have greater payout range than Zombies attacking Vampires. Based on the results I have ever observed, the ratio between Vampire's blood and Zombie's fresh is about 83.3333333333 (that is 250-3 ratio).

I might have found the maximum payout already, but try to calculate what the payout pattern is:

The smallest payout gap I could found is 6,988, but I had to divide it by two, that means I have to start getting a more accurate result from 3,494. Finally I have gotten the followings:

290,016 / 83 = 3,494.168675

310,981 / 89 = 3,494.168539

324,957 / 93 = 3,494.16129

349,417 / 100 = 3,494.17

356,405 / 102 = 3,494.166667

391,347 / 112 = 3,494.169643

405,323 / 116 = 3,494.163793

419,300 / 120 = 3,494.166667

The formula would be about 3,494.165 x (a random number between 80 and 120), that is about 279,533 - 419,300 in Level 26 in Vampires Live.

Also noticed that the low level basic formula in Racing Live may work all the way up to level 24 before a new income producer will be unlocked at level 25, based on the rough results from level 19.

Let's look at the payout table in World War. A significant increase in payout table at level 12 indicates a new income building (Power Plant) unlocks at this level, than the range raises step-by-step up to level 22 and remains steady up to level 24 before the same significant increase at level 25, which unlocks another income building (Oil Rig). Some increases may have occured before level 55 I have found and the next significant increase might be at level 60 which unlocks another income building (Solar Satellite Network). This range remains steady up to level 97 or so (may be up to 99) even though there is another income building unlocked at level 90.

Notice the pattern in iMobsters. The same thing happens at level 15 (Casino), 22 (Amusement Park), 35 (Horse Racing Circuit) and 50 (Professional Basketball Team). This does not occur at level 80 (Television Studio) as the bump already occured at level 77 (or maybe 76) and another increase at somewhere from level 87-89. And finally the last increase occurs at somewhere between level 96 and level 100 (unlocks Auction House). Even though there is another real estate (Record Label) unlocks at level 120, no more increase occurs.

Nothing particularly special about the results known at level 29 in Zombies Live, as the results are basically the same as the last level. At level 30 which unlocks a new income producer, the new information is hard to obtain. After a while I have collected, the results are as follows:

9,155; 7,248; 7,629; 7,858; 6,332; 9,079 and

6,790; 7,172; 8,545; 6,561

The smallest gap I have ever is 76, and after a while of approximation,

6,332 / 83 = 76.28915663

6,561 / 86 = 76.29069767

6,790 / 89 = 76.29213483

7,172 / 94 = 76.29787234

7,248 / 95 = 76.29473684

7,629 / 100 = 76.29

7,858 / 103 = 76.29126214

8,545 / 112 = 76.29464286

9,079 / 119 = 76.29411765

9,155 / 120 = 76.29166667

The payout formula at level 30 would be about 76.29 x (a random number between 80 and 120), that is about 6,103 - 9,155.

As it becomes harder to find results (maybe the amount one can gain is higher than the amount the another lose) in Vampires and Zombies Live, I'll try for Ninjas Live:

At level 43, there were only one known input: 15,367

At level 45, there were only one known input: 15,965

At level 58, the inputs were: 15,795 & 16,979, based on the original formula, that means it would be about 197.435 x (a random number between 80 and 120), that is about 15,795 - 23,692

At level 60, the inputs were:

19,502

19,945

20,167

21,718

22,161

25,929

After the calculations among the inputs, the formula would be about 221.615 x (a random number between 80 and 120), that is about 17,730 - 26,594

The range for level 70 known was 18,117 - 24,911, whereas the exact range known for level 78 is 18,117 - 27,176, which is about 226.465 x (a random number between 80 and 120). That means the results I have found at level 74, listed below, fulfills the formula above.

19,929

20,608

21,061

22,873

25,591

25,817

26,949

The above payout formula actually holds for levels 70 - 78.